Very good article.

[Jonathan Anderson]

www.umich.edu/~umkendo/rei.pdf

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts about what this article is saying, regardless of how long you've trained.

[sk8ter10121]

Peculiar article, one in which was worth the time to read especially having recently plunged down the rabbit hole sorta speak. I am having a hard time conveying my thoughts on this article as they are crossed, partially due to just being introduced into a world that is foreign to me however, I do believe in what is being said in the article though. The differences between the two cultures (Japanese and American) is staggering to say for sure. Somethings cannot be brought into American culture sadly, fear of ridicule and closed mindedness is basically what it boils down to.

[Jonathan Anderson]

Okay, good response, but I'd like to ask you, when you've had a little time to process the article and the ideas of reigi and reiho a little more, to expand on your statements a little bit.

Speaking from not only 7 years experience in Kendo and Iaido, but 19 years experience in the martial arts in general, many of these concepts don't feel all that alien to me anymore, so perhaps I could use a more fresh perspective. If I can better understand what your point of view on this subject is, it should remind me of what it once looked like to see these things for the first time, and should help me to explain them a little better (thus ensuring that I am fulfilling my responsibility as senpai).

One thing I particularly liked about this article is the point the author makes about senior ranks. Granted, I'm the goofy guy up front - the hack to blame for this whole mess, if you will - but that doesn't give me any right to lord anything over any of you. Yes I have greater experience, and as the article points out, it is the student's responsibility to show up eager and ready to learn; but it is my responsibility to guide, not order, all of you on the path as best I can. Bear in mind, and this is from an exchange I had with Angie a few weeks back, I may well be the most experienced person in the group, but that does not mean that I am necessarily the most TALENTED person in the group. Any of you, or all of you, may possess greater talent than I have, you just need the proper direction to realize it.

Something additional to think about: the article points out that in Japan they don't teach reigi or reiho as it's a part of the culture. Similarly, what kinds of things do we do here in America to show respect to people/things? When I played Little League baseball, we always went up to the opposing team after the game to shake hands and thank them for a good game. Is this so different from what the Japanese do? From the position of reigi, yes we are doing something vastly different - shaking hands rather than keeping our distance and bowing - but then again, there is a proper distance for hand shaking, is there not? There is an unspoken proper length of time to shake hands, which is dependant upon the situation. There is an expected grip pressure, which is based on the gender of the recipient - it's customary, after all, to grip a bit tighter for a man's hand than for a woman's - as well as the level of respect held for the recipient. My grandfather used to tell me that you could tell pretty much everything you need to know about a man from his handshake - how firm his grip without being overbearing, and his willingness to look you in the eye - of course this extends to both genders. Is this taught as part of a sports training program in this country? Of course not. If you were to suggest that a team spend any amount of time covering proper hand shaking etiquette rather than practicing their team positions, you'd probably find yourself out one coaching job in a big hurry. The same hold true for placing one's hand over their heart during the National Anthem. You're told about it when you're very young, and after that, you're expected to know to do it. If you don't, that says a bit about your character. No doubt, the Japanese feel the same when it comes to reigi in Kendo. Now going back to the original analogy, the reiho is, I believe, identical to what the Japanese do in Kendo. Having respect for someone or something is having respect, regardless of culture or ethnic background. The one point the article does make that I agree with is that Americans do tend to lack feelings of personal obligation, particularly when it comes to classes, be they college, martial arts, dance, etc. I’m not sure if it’s a cause or an effect of the “sense of entitlement” attitude most Americans seem to present, which could generate a whole splinter discussion unto itself, really.

Okay, I’m getting off the soapbox to patiently wait for everyone’s responses.

[sk8ter10121]

Think of it as taking an ant and telling it to be a bee (random thought), basically taking 23 years of american bred in culture and reversing them, i.e. bowing vice shaking hands, moving on your right foot instead of your left (extremely difficult for me to do but I have been working on it in my free time). Its hard to explain really just how foreign everything feels, from "sword up" to shomen rei (please do correct me if I said that wrong, which im almost sure I did and I hope it can be deciphered).

I agree with you he does make a good point about how the rank structure is, having rank shoved down someones throat is something I can relate to all too well, now if this were a reality in Kendo/Iaido I believe it would deter alot of people from studying either, myself included (as such this is not the case which I am extremely grateful for).

To expand upon the idea of respect in regards to little league, I too played some little league when I was knee high to a duck however at that age you really do not understand what is going on or what your actions are proving, I understand it is trying to reinforce good sportsmanship however, if I remember right all I wanted to do was "wack" the ever living crap out of the ball lol. The author does briefly mention their ideas on the american consumerism ideas, and I believe exactly the same thing although a slightly more abstract version of the idea I have for myself, its how we are raised if we are paying for something we want the gain from it, instant gratification more or less rather then showing patience.

Some other things that can be construed as reigi or reiho would be "yes ma'am" "yes sir" (not to be taken in the military perspective but more as we would use them towards our elders), saying please and thank you. I agree there are similarities in both cultures granted completely opposite sides of the spectrum but the meaning and thought is there, although lately I have been seeing the worst of people obscuring my ideas on how society is today.